Post by wesowsley on Jan 23, 2010 10:57:32 GMT -5
Hello all...thanks so much for the posts!
Gary McKinnon...I have to be honest here and tell you that I have been in the IT Business for almost 16 years now...I come from the world of BBS's (Anyone else remember those)...but I got my first computer at 12.
I said all of that to say this...I am of 2 minds on this subject. The first thing that pops into my head is that I believe in the total freedom of information. Part of me says that if he could hack in and find stuff, more power to him. The government should drop any attempt to extradite him, and get their own act together and secure their networks.
I confess to have written my congressman about the case...
But then reality hits...and I got to tell you...he did WHAT with a 56K modem? Despite what you might think, Russian operations are like a red-headed step child for NASA, and we were the "Exiles" over there. But still...my little private network that supported our entire operation over there sat behind (Count them now) 13 CheckPoint Firewalls...13 separate devices. A fly couldn't get access to my network without me knowing it instantly. Oh yeah, of those 13 firewalls...the first 3 were monitored.
Here is the second hole in his story...and the part that doesn't make sense...the part that makes me think...hmmm....
Johnson Space Center (Henceforth JSC), is connected to the rest of the world by NISN (NASA's Integrated Services Network nisn.nasa.gov/). You see all centers are connected together via a network and they all get their Internet access from one of two facilities. MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, or AMES Research Center in San Francisco). Therefore you see, JSC doesn't have direct access to the Internet...so for McKinnon to have accessed computers at JSC he couldn't have dialed into JSC...he would have had to dial in MSFC and then hopped over to JSC.
Problem number three - MSFC is the HUB of ALL communications and it isn't a place that operates 8 to 5...the NOC (Network Operations Center) at Marshall is a 24x7, 365 days per year operation...they also monitor the firewalls there...intruder alerts are displayed on a large screen....and you know...it is NASA...they get attempted hacks all the time. The guys in the NOC at Marshall...well let's just say...they are real good at what they do and if he was operating at 56k, they would have been on him like white on rice.
Problem number four - NASA doesn't operate vast call-in kiosks for its employees, they were phased out before I started working in the program. The ability to dial-in is limited to management, and those who have a waiver because of maternity leave, sickness, etc... or upper management. All of that is done via broadband access or VPN piping to the home...not via dial-up. Even back then...that was how it was done.
So I am not saying that the chap is lying about his exploits...I don't know that for sure but I think its improbable. The U.S. Government goes after everyone who tries to gain unauthorized access to its networks. Its a blanket policy so they aren't making a special case of his.
Besides...you ever tried to open a 256MB file via a 56k modem? I would rather shoot myself in the gut!
Free Gary!
As I mentioned in the first post...I am aware of USAF Space Command and what it is they do. But their "Space Program" isn't about exploration, UFO's, or Moon Bases...their program is about weaponization, reconassaince, communications, etc. Like a other poster to this forum mentioned...satellites don't launch themselves.
The US Army has a space command, and the US Navy has a space command...the official US Army Space Command Astronaut was Jim Voss....and the official US Navy Space Command Astronaut is Bill Shepherd (A Navy Seal). They are actively involved in the space program...Bill Shepherd (Affectionatly known as "Shep") was the first commander of the ISS...and Jim Voss was on expedition 2. Jim has since retired.
If you guys are looking for the secret stuff like reconnaisance stuff...you won't find it in the military...you have to look for the contractors. I told my dad once (My dad is a Jason Bourne fan)...everyone talks about the stuff that can look down and read a newspaper from space...the stuff that looks up is MUCH more interesting. Check out the company Ocean IT. oceanit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=136
They manage a constellation of high powered telescopes around the world all linked together...and specialize in "Space Situational Awareness Systems" this is a quote from their website.
Greeting Paratopians!
Sorry for the long absence on the board...been travelling back to the USA.
So, I don't think the increased budget will make much difference. NASA allocates budgets years in advance and the increase will probably not be felt for years to come.
My best friend who is still in the program is the contracts guy for the lunar project. He is negotiating deals that are forty and fifty years out...and those are getting signed...so expect no prompt responses just because of money being given.
Also, some of that budget will pushed to our International Partners.
By the way...
I opened this thread with a question....What country from 1997 - 2001 had the biggest space program in terms of the number of launches per year?
Answer: India
Actually...India is the largest recipient of "Orbital Outsourcing" in the world. Need a launch and don't have your own space program? India is your place to turn!
Let's think about this for a minute...
Let's say...ummm...Bulgaria. Bulgaria doesn't have a space program and doesn't have the ability or the cash to build one. BUT..they have their own satellites for television/communications. Well...how did those satellites get there? Same for Mexico, Canada, Lithuania, Argentina, and most other countries. Since they own the air space and orbital spaces above them by International law, they can either sell/lease that space, or put up their own stuff.
I can't think of a country that doesn't have their own satellite television service (Ok...except Afghanistan/ and some really small or poor countries in Africa. I know Kenya does...I know Ethiopia has its own satellites...etc.). But the options for getting those satellites into orbit are limited. France excepts outsourcing work (They launch out of the facility at Brasilia). Brazil itself doesn't have a launch vehicle but France uses ESA's unit. Brazil just signed an agreement a few years ago with RSA (Russian Space Agency) to build them a launch vehicle.
Anyway...I said all of that to say...there is more going on than the general public is aware of but that still isn't a Secret Space Program...its just stuff that most people aren't interested in.
Reason number 2 why there isn't a secret space program.
Infrastructure.
NASA has over 18,000 employees not counting contractors. My guess would be there is somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 contractors who work full time on NASA projects.
Launch Facilities and Testing Facilities. Landing Facilities. Laboratories, IT Infrastructure...it isn't there.
When I was in the space program, I had an in-country backup person (And I was his backup). Us in-country guys, had a team of 13 backing us up back in the states. That team was the RSVG Russian Services Group. That team of 13 had over 90 backing them up...and so on. Now, pick a position in the space program...any position. From NASA Agency Director, to the facilities guy who put up Sheetrock and everyone in between has a backup. If your mission-critical such as a ballistics person or a cap com (sometimes an Astronaut sometimes not)...you probably have two or three backup people. That is the nature of the beast.
A shuttle launch is a beautiful thing to behold. But that one very complicated and very dangerous exercise belies the fact that when they light those engines and the Shuttle clears the tower, there are literally thousands of people all over the world...standing there watching the monitors, waiting to be put into an alert state.
A secret space program (Again, not counting military launches of secret satellites...yes that happens) of any significance, would require at least that much infrastructure if not more. Throw in a "Moon Base" (LOL) and a Mars Effort, and you just quadrupled that infrastructure requirement at least. So lets think a moment about that point. Let's say NASA has ummm...300,000 workers...then a secret space program would require a minimum of 1,200,000 people supporting it. At the NASA Average salary on the GSA Scale, that would be somewhere in the neighborhood (And I am very conservative here...going very low on the scale) $78 Billion dollars in salary alone. That doesn't count, thrift, insurance, COLA's, per diems for travel, facilities....
Its just not happening people.
Next reason why there isn't a secret space program. Space Flight Certification.
More in the next post.
Gary McKinnon...I have to be honest here and tell you that I have been in the IT Business for almost 16 years now...I come from the world of BBS's (Anyone else remember those)...but I got my first computer at 12.
I said all of that to say this...I am of 2 minds on this subject. The first thing that pops into my head is that I believe in the total freedom of information. Part of me says that if he could hack in and find stuff, more power to him. The government should drop any attempt to extradite him, and get their own act together and secure their networks.
I confess to have written my congressman about the case...
But then reality hits...and I got to tell you...he did WHAT with a 56K modem? Despite what you might think, Russian operations are like a red-headed step child for NASA, and we were the "Exiles" over there. But still...my little private network that supported our entire operation over there sat behind (Count them now) 13 CheckPoint Firewalls...13 separate devices. A fly couldn't get access to my network without me knowing it instantly. Oh yeah, of those 13 firewalls...the first 3 were monitored.
Here is the second hole in his story...and the part that doesn't make sense...the part that makes me think...hmmm....
Johnson Space Center (Henceforth JSC), is connected to the rest of the world by NISN (NASA's Integrated Services Network nisn.nasa.gov/). You see all centers are connected together via a network and they all get their Internet access from one of two facilities. MSFC (Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, or AMES Research Center in San Francisco). Therefore you see, JSC doesn't have direct access to the Internet...so for McKinnon to have accessed computers at JSC he couldn't have dialed into JSC...he would have had to dial in MSFC and then hopped over to JSC.
Problem number three - MSFC is the HUB of ALL communications and it isn't a place that operates 8 to 5...the NOC (Network Operations Center) at Marshall is a 24x7, 365 days per year operation...they also monitor the firewalls there...intruder alerts are displayed on a large screen....and you know...it is NASA...they get attempted hacks all the time. The guys in the NOC at Marshall...well let's just say...they are real good at what they do and if he was operating at 56k, they would have been on him like white on rice.
Problem number four - NASA doesn't operate vast call-in kiosks for its employees, they were phased out before I started working in the program. The ability to dial-in is limited to management, and those who have a waiver because of maternity leave, sickness, etc... or upper management. All of that is done via broadband access or VPN piping to the home...not via dial-up. Even back then...that was how it was done.
So I am not saying that the chap is lying about his exploits...I don't know that for sure but I think its improbable. The U.S. Government goes after everyone who tries to gain unauthorized access to its networks. Its a blanket policy so they aren't making a special case of his.
Besides...you ever tried to open a 256MB file via a 56k modem? I would rather shoot myself in the gut!
Free Gary!
As I mentioned in the first post...I am aware of USAF Space Command and what it is they do. But their "Space Program" isn't about exploration, UFO's, or Moon Bases...their program is about weaponization, reconassaince, communications, etc. Like a other poster to this forum mentioned...satellites don't launch themselves.
The US Army has a space command, and the US Navy has a space command...the official US Army Space Command Astronaut was Jim Voss....and the official US Navy Space Command Astronaut is Bill Shepherd (A Navy Seal). They are actively involved in the space program...Bill Shepherd (Affectionatly known as "Shep") was the first commander of the ISS...and Jim Voss was on expedition 2. Jim has since retired.
If you guys are looking for the secret stuff like reconnaisance stuff...you won't find it in the military...you have to look for the contractors. I told my dad once (My dad is a Jason Bourne fan)...everyone talks about the stuff that can look down and read a newspaper from space...the stuff that looks up is MUCH more interesting. Check out the company Ocean IT. oceanit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=136
They manage a constellation of high powered telescopes around the world all linked together...and specialize in "Space Situational Awareness Systems" this is a quote from their website.
Greeting Paratopians!
Sorry for the long absence on the board...been travelling back to the USA.
So, I don't think the increased budget will make much difference. NASA allocates budgets years in advance and the increase will probably not be felt for years to come.
My best friend who is still in the program is the contracts guy for the lunar project. He is negotiating deals that are forty and fifty years out...and those are getting signed...so expect no prompt responses just because of money being given.
Also, some of that budget will pushed to our International Partners.
By the way...
I opened this thread with a question....What country from 1997 - 2001 had the biggest space program in terms of the number of launches per year?
Answer: India
Actually...India is the largest recipient of "Orbital Outsourcing" in the world. Need a launch and don't have your own space program? India is your place to turn!
Let's think about this for a minute...
Let's say...ummm...Bulgaria. Bulgaria doesn't have a space program and doesn't have the ability or the cash to build one. BUT..they have their own satellites for television/communications. Well...how did those satellites get there? Same for Mexico, Canada, Lithuania, Argentina, and most other countries. Since they own the air space and orbital spaces above them by International law, they can either sell/lease that space, or put up their own stuff.
I can't think of a country that doesn't have their own satellite television service (Ok...except Afghanistan/ and some really small or poor countries in Africa. I know Kenya does...I know Ethiopia has its own satellites...etc.). But the options for getting those satellites into orbit are limited. France excepts outsourcing work (They launch out of the facility at Brasilia). Brazil itself doesn't have a launch vehicle but France uses ESA's unit. Brazil just signed an agreement a few years ago with RSA (Russian Space Agency) to build them a launch vehicle.
Anyway...I said all of that to say...there is more going on than the general public is aware of but that still isn't a Secret Space Program...its just stuff that most people aren't interested in.
Reason number 2 why there isn't a secret space program.
Infrastructure.
NASA has over 18,000 employees not counting contractors. My guess would be there is somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 contractors who work full time on NASA projects.
Launch Facilities and Testing Facilities. Landing Facilities. Laboratories, IT Infrastructure...it isn't there.
When I was in the space program, I had an in-country backup person (And I was his backup). Us in-country guys, had a team of 13 backing us up back in the states. That team was the RSVG Russian Services Group. That team of 13 had over 90 backing them up...and so on. Now, pick a position in the space program...any position. From NASA Agency Director, to the facilities guy who put up Sheetrock and everyone in between has a backup. If your mission-critical such as a ballistics person or a cap com (sometimes an Astronaut sometimes not)...you probably have two or three backup people. That is the nature of the beast.
A shuttle launch is a beautiful thing to behold. But that one very complicated and very dangerous exercise belies the fact that when they light those engines and the Shuttle clears the tower, there are literally thousands of people all over the world...standing there watching the monitors, waiting to be put into an alert state.
A secret space program (Again, not counting military launches of secret satellites...yes that happens) of any significance, would require at least that much infrastructure if not more. Throw in a "Moon Base" (LOL) and a Mars Effort, and you just quadrupled that infrastructure requirement at least. So lets think a moment about that point. Let's say NASA has ummm...300,000 workers...then a secret space program would require a minimum of 1,200,000 people supporting it. At the NASA Average salary on the GSA Scale, that would be somewhere in the neighborhood (And I am very conservative here...going very low on the scale) $78 Billion dollars in salary alone. That doesn't count, thrift, insurance, COLA's, per diems for travel, facilities....
Its just not happening people.
Next reason why there isn't a secret space program. Space Flight Certification.
More in the next post.
